RPGObjects E-Chat Transcript for 6/23/2004

BrooklynKnight: Welcome and Greetings to all the Chatters who have come to #d20-modern to ask questions of Chuck and Mike. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you, that #d20-modern is open 24/7 for your general d20modern chat needs and for game organizing. This chat will be moderated. Please start sending me all your questions in MSG. They will be added to a queue and I'll ask them in the order I get them (assuming how well I keep track). Chuck and Mike, please introduce yourselves, and feel free to set a specific topic of questions you'd like to tackle first. Otherwise, everyone is free to send any questions relating to "the blood books" as written by Charles and Mike, as well as any other products either of you have worked on for d20modern.

Chuck Rice: I'd like to thank everyone for coming... the turnout is nice. I guess I got started in this business when I self-published the original Vigilance PDF. After that I did Raw Recruits and Vigilance: Absolute Power for MEG. Then I hooked up with RPGObjects and with them I have done Blood and Space, Blood and Relics, Blood and Fists, Blood and Guts, and numerous supplements. I also recently did my first book for D&D Legends of Excalibur. We can talk about any of those books, getting started in the business, the state of d20 Modern, or anything else folks would like to ask.

Talien: Ooh, my turn. Short version, I tend to be wordy so my apologies in advance: My most recent work is Frost & Fur.  I've written lots of adventures for MonkeyGod Enterprises, and Dragon magazine and contribute to Privateer Press upcoming books.  You can read more about me at http://michael.tresca.net so I'll shut up now. :)

Chuck Rice: *ahem* your LATEST work is Blood and Brainssssssssss. LOL.

Talien: Oops, yes Chuck recruited me from these very ENboards when I was trying to pitch my zombie book.

BrooklynKnight: There you have it kids. Feel free to start sending me questions. I've only got one in the queue so far...Also, keep in mind, sometime tonight we'll be doing trivia to give out free RPGObjects books!

Talien: Frost and Fur may or may not be a success, we won't know.  It's definitely too early to tell about Blood and Brains.  I'm really hopeful that the book will do well; it's filled with a lot of my sick humor, so we'll see if people love it or come after me with pitchforks. I reserve the right to hide behind Chuck if people hate it and tell everyone he forced me to write it.

Chuck Rice: I think it is yes. When I started out there wasn't a resource like that available, I certainly wish there had been. I think generally speaking the best thing you can do to get your foot in the door in this business is self publish... it opened a LOT of doors for me. I might be alone in feeling this way, but I think its something everyone can do, and everyone who wants to should. The "entry fee" is less than 200 dollars for a PDF these days.

Talien: In short I think Chuck and RPGObjects is exceptionally Internet savvy. My experience has been many print publishers don't have the experience of dealing with the Internet and miss a lot of Internet-generated opportunities. You can do a LOT for free and using the concept of viral marketing, which .PDF publishers know all about because they live and die by it.

Chuck Rice: You're not suggesting CERTAIN companies are afraid of the Internet are you Mike :)

Talien: Moi?  NEVER! :)

Chuck Rice: LOL

BrooklynKnight: I have some experience in these arena, so I'll toss in my two cents if our guests don't mind. IF you want to get your foot in the door, two really important things to do/try, is Submit to Dragon Magazine, and Enworld's Open Call forum. And being friends with certain industry people helps too. *cough*

Chuck Rice: I am reallllllllly lucky in my situation at RPGObjects. I come up with my own product lines. Blood and Relics, Blood and Fists, Blood and Guts were all products I wanted to do and were more or less my babies from the ground up. My inspiration would be the kinds of books I wanted when I was a consumer of RPG products but no one was making. I more or less wrote the books I wanted, and was lucky enough that other people wanted them too.

Talien: I've got exactly three books that were pitched ideas: The Dancing Hut, All the King's Men, and Blood and Brains...everything else was a house writer. I enjoy the challenge of writing about other subjects that I might not know about, by the time I'm done I know a lot more with all the research required. That said, it also makes it easier to "put your baby out there" because I'm doing what people ask in their game worlds. Example: I never even TRIED to put my own campaign world into the Wizards campaign contest, because while it's my baby, I also realize it's not necessarily that unique. So on some level it takes real guts (pun intended Chuck) to go out there and publish stuff you love. Which is why I'm so eager to see Blood and Brainsssss do well.  Here's hoping!

Chuck Rice: To add something... if you look at the kinds of books I do, it reflects some things that I think d20 companies could and should learn from Steve Jackson.

Chuck Rice: Not if I can help it. It was miserable. I'm only here under threat of litigation.

Talien: I thought you had a court order not to talk about that!

Chuck Rice: that's what you were going to say too right Mike? :)

Talien: Yes, absolutely!

Chuck Rice: seriously... when I read the first draft of Blood and Brains I laughed my *** off... it was a book someone was going to do. So I figured it should be RPGObjects.

Talien: Working with Chuck is great.  He's really flexible and open-minded, important traits when you're working together, especially if you've never worked together before. He knew what he want, we were pretty open with each other, and I think everything clicked.  It doesn't happen enough these days, so I consider our collaboration to be fortuitous.

Chuck Rice: I hate being told what to do. I think Id make a lousy staff writer. So I try to respect what's already in a book rather than try and make the writer guess what *I* would have written and type it out for me.

Talien: Chuck Rice: The writer's writer.

Chuck Rice: I can't speak for all publishers. However RPGObjects has published several d20M books and has more coming out all the time. You can still get print copies of Blood and Fists and Blood and Guts, though both are almost sold out. To answer the state of d20M... I think there was a lag that certain companies did not expect in 3rd  party support. Wizards fully expected a book a month in print in the first year of d20 Modern. They didn't realize it was going to take us time to get up to speed on the rules. d20M is *very* different than D&D in some subtle but powerful ways. That said, I think the support for the game in print is pretty strong from RPGObjects and Green Ronin alone and would not be surprised to see that increase.

Talien: To add to what Chuck said...I think d20 Modern is just starting to come into its own. The best example is that freebie I wrote for The Thing (the movie). Now you've got the Star Doppelganger in d20 Modern. That's what people always wanted...goobs like me were writing our own versions. I think you'll see more of that -- more of "well, duh, yeah we ALWAYS wanted that but nobody ever wrote something we could use." Which are the "ahha" moments that Chuck's been filling out with his books. People want to role-play the stuff they see in other media.  Movies, books...once you're outside of the fantasy genre, you can do a LOT. Now I'm just waiting for a Donnie Darko d20 Modern supplement and my life will be complete.

Chuck Rice: That would have to be Blood and Fists. It was a daunting prospect that almost did not get greenlit. I had done one little d20 Modern book at that time (Blood and Relics a campaign model), but really wanted to add a strong base of martial arts to the game. But we knew The Game Mechanics were going to do the same thing, and my approach couldn't have been more different. So that required some careful thought. And I think the fact that I not only pulled it off, but that book was a huge success(still my most successful financially) was really kind of a watershed moment for me as a writer.

Talien: Personally, I'm fond of Blood and Space & Blood and Guts. Because when you look around for that kind of info, it's not there. Now there are more books in that genre, but at the time those two books came out, there wasn't. If you need proof, the Aliens supplement is like a big advertisement for Blood and Space. Good stuff, and the genre STILL not yet been filled by other books (until we get d20 Future I suppose).

Chuck Rice: It depends for me. I don't consider myself an artist, more like a craftsman. It's like working in a coalmine. Sometimes you're working really hard and not getting anywhere. Then other times you feel like you're goofing off, look up and the book is done. Blood and Fists was easy, it flew off the keyboard even though it required a lot of research. Blood and Guts was a LOT harder. Which is probably why the War on Terror ended up being a little short than I would have liked. I was burnt in all honesty. To actually ADRESS the question about 1-2 months per book :)

Talien: Mercenaries: Born of Blood -- 3 months.  Frost and Fur: 4 months.  Blood and Brains: 1 month, because I had a week off for holiday vacation. The Mercs book hurt to write because it was the first time I wrote a book of that size.  In comparison, Frost and Fur was a lot easier.  Blood and Brains flowed like butter because it was a book I always wanted to do. And 'cause I'm an Evil Dead fan. :)

Talien: Absolutely!   I originally wrote my Evil Dead freebie supplement, and you'll see a lot of influences.  I couldn't use the exact phrases like "Hail to the King" but the book is decidedly influenced by Evil Dead.  However...Once I started doing my zombie research, you start to see that in fact, that Evil Dead was almost a different kind of zombie movie altogether. That said, Evil Dead introduced me to a bunch of other zombie movies…I loved Dawn of the Dead, loved it! And 28 Days Later (although after seeing it again, not so much). If anything, I would argue that Evil dead was a transitional bridge between old slow shambly zombies and new fast running zombies.  But anyway, I digress.  Yes, if I could write for the Evil Dead license I so would, and this is my tribute to Evil Dead and some much crappier (but amusing) zombie movies.

Chuck Rice: well... when you look at what d20 companies tend to do, the way they seem to think... and this is me as an outsider, one with a lot of knowledge of the industry, but I'm not in any other RPG company meetings... They seem to think in very similar ways to TSR 20 years ago. They make campaigns... they make spell books... they make campaigns...If you look at GURPs' product lines, they make modular rule books, some campaign books, but mostly rules that all fit together seamlessly and leave how to mix and match to the GM. d20 has that potential rules-wise... but many companies don't make books that fit together with their OWN product. so I try to make all my books work together on a level that you can use it all... or use one book...I just give you rules... I don't tell you what to do with it.

Talien: To add to what Chuck said, we work in a bit of a paradox...RPGs are supposed to be about imagination and yet we write supplements giving you the imaginary framework. At some point, when are you giving too much? I think SJGames has struck a good balance, which is to remain focused on letting the GMs create. Campaign worlds are great, but...Ultimately, as a consumer, I like the creativity to build my own stuff.  I branched off from a lot of old TSR products once they became heavily campaign focused. So in essence, if you brand yourself too strongly, you force customers to make a choice between campaign worlds, and SJGames has always been sure to keep that choice equal vs. heavily favoring any one genre.

Chuck Rice: To add something to what Mike said... Its a question of degree... for instance people have made games where you have Nazi Occultists looking for artifacts in WWII... that's a cool idea... but if you don't want to run a Raiders-type game its limited... what I think a company should do is make a WWII book... a Horror book... and a Super book... if they all mesh, the GM will know what to do trust me. :)

BrooklynKnight: What do you two think about Dork 20, the card accessory sold by Atlas Games. I use it even in my modern games.

Chuck Rice: honestly I have never heard of it... :(

Talien: Wait wait, let me think. This is the card game that has some silly stuff but basically mixes up your game depending on what you draw? Something like that right?

BrooklynKnight: Each card has a different d20 mechanic that can benefit the player. They start with 4 per session and can buy more with XP. Like steal a natural 20 from the GM or, roll twice or +10 to a skill, etc.

Talien: right. I'm amazed there's not more of that. I LOVE Knightmare Chess, although I can never find anyone to play with. It basically takes Chess and "Magic-fies it" by adding a lot of possibilities outside of the standard  rule set.

Chuck Rice: I actually just wrote a little book called BNG: Duty, Honor, Country that had 4 alternate soldier classes and some feats... about 8 pages... beyond that, this is going to be a BIG year for Blood and Guts fans. The worst winter in human history is the tagline to the project, and it's so ambitious that I am still reassuring my publisher. Well... I have never actually been told no. Chris is great like that, he trusts my ability to make him money :) However, there are different approaches to a big project. But it will happen.

Talien: heh, well B&G... Chuck and I have been talking about a lot of stuff. All of it depends. For one, I'm lined up for a few products already. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to talk about, actually. For another, it depends on if the brand of humor in Blood and Brainsssss goes over well. If it does, you can expect to see more.

Chuck Rice: There's a strong possibility you'll see a BNG book in the future with Mike's name on it. How's that?

Chuck Rice: I have no spoiler info. My thought is that the game should have been a complete game. If they are looking for 3rd part d20 Future support they are creating some interesting problems for companies like RPGO that would LOVE to provide that support. For example, right now for someone to use a Blood book they have to buy a big expensive HC from Wizards. That's not a big barrier. But if we wanted to do a similar book for d20 Future.  Since it isn't a complete game, we are now asking someone to buy TWO expensive books before they can buy our book. And people who think they NEED both those books wont buy it.

Chuck Rice: d20 Future is going to compete with Darwin's World on some levels. But as far as us making books that require d20 Future... that's a big question mark. However, by making d20future an add on book, they save a lot of space. They don't have to reprint all of the d20modern rules that it uses. It makes sense for them. Whether it makes sense for any companies to help them support it...

Talien: There really is that open question: is it better to create a complete book with duplicative rules or a supplement with the risk the purchaser won't have the core book?  I think ultimately D20 Future is not going to make everyone happy. Heck not everyone's happy with D20 Modern, which is more D20 Modern-Fantasy anyway.

Chuck Rice: My biggest hero as an RPG writer is Aaron Allston. A writer who did a lot of work for Hero games and D&D 2E. He currently writes Star Wars novels. The d20 writer I most respect would be Chris Pramas.

Talien: I'm really not a big fan boy type, but I become a stuttering idiot around Monte and Sue Cook.  They're  exceptionally patient and pleasant AND talented...my wife's an editor, I hope to one day emulate what the Cooks have achieved.  I also think Ryan Dancey's a great guy and exchange horror stories about MMORPGs whenever we meet.

Chuck Rice: I think there's a lot of room for future Blood and... books and Id expect to see some completely new installments this year (as opposed to more Blood and Guts and Blood and Fists). But very shortly a "holy grail" project of mine is going to come out, that is basically going to be my campaign. If you've ever wondered what goes on at my gaming table, this book will show you

Talien: Honestly, I think we need more books from the player's point of view.  Books about killing monsters.  I'd love to take the Blood and Brainnsss perspective and apply it to every horror monster type ever created. :)

Talien: Uhm, let's see. Fans of Evil Dead know that the movie were originally inspired by wuxia type cinema, specifically Chinese Ghost Story. Watch that and you'll be amazed just how much of a parallel there is. So in short, if you're consciously paying homage to Evil Dead, in some sense you've already got the "Chinese undead style" right. That said, Blood and Brainsssss is generic -- there's a shaolin spade (a nod to Max Brook's book) and I think the zombies have a hopping movement too. So it's in there -- not as strong, as there's so many forms of zombie movies that they get mixed together.  I definitely made sure bad 50's type zombies had their day as well.

Chuck Rice: I play every week... alternating between two campaigns right now: Legends of Excalibur (Arthurian D&D) and the USHER Dossiers, my d20 Modern campaign that will see life in the next couple of months. During the dark days of 2E I ran GURPs for about 6 years

Talien: I WISH I could play more often, most of my gaming is through living campaigns at conventions (Gen Con, I-Con, etc.).  My campaign world is over a decade old but it's tough with all my buddies married and working to find time. I've played lots of stuff...was a big World of Darkness fan for awhile, have a lot of respect for The Primal Order , and looove Continuum. Now I'm one of those guys who collects more d20 books than he can use. :)

Chuck Rice: I think I write with women in mind in some ways. An unusual situation- I have always had at least one female gamer in my campaigns going back 20 years. One of the play testers in my current home campaign who has seen every "Blood and..." book before anyone else is female. I think it's not so elusive. Women gamers are gamers. If you right games that aren't juvenile and don't pander to them they will play

Talien: My wife plays in all the campaigns I've ever run and she reads everything I send out, so... That said, I have a phrase "strike while the iron is hot" -- I busted ass on writing fantasy because the fantasy genre has never been more mainstream. A convergence, of sorts. D&D3 being released, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings movies. Those three things have done more for the genre as a whole, including RPGs, than anything else.  On some level, it's about getting eyeballs and not even about content -- women enjoy a lot of gaming that men do. Example: I went to I-Con when Billy Boyd was there.  More women than I've ever seen at a convention in my life (been going 10 years). So they're there...the question are RPGs competing with all the other things crying out for attention.  That's an epidemic problem already. Women are gaming on massive multiplayers, so if MMORPGs can do it, RPGs can too.

BrooklynKnight: I hope you enjoyed yourselves and come back next week for a chat with the author of Modern Backdrops! Carrie Baize!