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Archive of Questions and Answers about Combat Robotics from Team Run Amok: Radio and Electrical Team Run Amok receives a lot of email asking about the design and operation of combat robots. Several years ago, my son and team member Aaron Joerger (now 16) requested a question and answer page to document our responses. Aaron answers most of the questions, but I'll step in for highly technical replies.
To see the most recent questions or to ask a new question, go to the Ask Aaron home page.
Radio and Electrical Q: Will using a gyro negate the timing on my DeWalt drill motors?
A: Mark J. here: DeWalt drill motors spin faster counterclockwise than clockwise because the brush timing has been advanced to improve efficiency when spinning counter-clockwise. Used in a robot, the left-side motor will run a little faster than the right-side motor and the 'bot will curve to the right rather than go straight under full power.
A peizo gyro is used in an R/C system to detect turning movement that has not been initiated by the R/C transmitter. When such turning is detected the gyro modifies the output of the receiver to correct for that movement. Peizo gyros were developed for R/C helicopters to monitor the action of the tail rotor and keep the chopper pointed in the right direction, but they can be very handy in specific robot applications as well.
Back to your question: yes -- since the turning of the robot happens without R/C turning input a heading-hold type peizo gyro would sense this as 'drift' and would correct the turning motion by reducing power to the left-side motor. Q: Hi Aaron. I watched a thing a few years back on Tech TV (before G4). This guy made a remote control thing that had a wire connected to the remote out of stuff like old VCR parts. Do you know what I am talking about? If you do, how do it work? A: No clue. Q: How many volts can the BR6000 receiver supply -- 4.8 or 6.0 volts? A: Receivers do not 'supply' voltage -- they pass on the voltage from the source that powers them. The Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC) of a typical Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) provides 5 volts. The Spektrum receivers can operate directly from a power source as high as 9 volts and would pass that voltage directly thru to the receiver power output line. Q: I found a RC radio for $35, but I'm not sure its 75 Mhz. If its not, can I buy a receiver that I know is 75MHz? The radio in question is a 4 channel Futaba. A: Take a look at the removable crystal for the transmitter and/or receiver. They should both be labeled with a frequency channel number. If that channel number is between 61 and 90 (75.410 to 75.990 MHz) then the radio is 75 MHz ground frequency. If the Transmitter is not 75 MHz, a 75 MHz receiver will not work with it -- they have to match. A certified technician can retune a Futaba radio from 72 MHz to 75 MHz, but it would be less expensive to buy a radio on the correct frequency band to start with. Q: Would the DX5e be a good buy for a inexpensive 2.4 GHz radio? A: The Spektrum DX5e is brand new and I have received no feedback from robot builders, so I cannot make a recommendation. I can tell you that it is a very basic 5-channel transmitter that lacks many useful features that make a robot much easier to set up and more comfortable to drive. Q: What features does it lack compared to the DX6? A: The DX5e has few features compared to the fully computerized DX6. Some examples:
Q: Could you use the DX5e with the BR6000? A: Yes, and you should use the BR6000 receiver for the full failsafe features. The AR500 receiver does not correctly failsafe for robot applications. Q: You can buy the DX5e on 'Mode 1' or 'Mode 2'. What does that mean? A: There are two 'standard' ways that input channels are assigned to the two control sticks. Mode 2 is the U.S. standard with the elevator channel assigned to the vertical stick axis on the right side of the transmitter. Mode 1 is the European standard and has the elevator channel on the left stick. Computerized transmitters generally allow you to switch between modes, but the DX5e doesn't so you have to pick. If you're going to use the included 'elevon' mixing and want 'single stick' control of throttle and steering on the right stick, pick Mode 2. Elevon mixing in Mode 1 will give you throttle on the left stick and steering on the right. More information on modes and mixing can be found in our transmitter programming guide Q: Does the DX5e have a low battery light or something? A: Yes, that's covered in the DX5e manual. See page six, and read the rest of it while you're there. Q: Could you solder right angle pins onto the BR6000 receiver to make it a horizontal pin receiver if you needed to? A: Yes, but I'm not sure why you'd need to. If you're short on space, it would be easier to take the connector plugs apart and plug in the individual wires. Q: If your receiver antenna is cut, can you solder and heatshrink it back together? A: Sure -- just keep the total length as close to the original as possible. Search this archive for 'original length' for a full discussion. Q: I was driving my beetleweight around when suddenly it caught on fire. Everything was destroyed. I hooked two li-poly batteries in series and connected them to 2 Victor speed controllers. I also charged the batteries with a NIMH charger. Could that have been the problem? A: Lithium batteries are very sensitive to abuse, and an abused lithium battery can burst into flame.
Q: Dear Aaron, what is the difference between digital and analog servos? Thanks. A: The whole difference between digital and analog servos is in the electronic controller board inside the servo. Digital servos have a microprocessor on that board that can process the signal from the receiver and send more precise, quicker control information to the servo motor. If you're flying a helicopter this is important. If you're powering an ant lifter or hacking a servo for a drivetrain, you'll never notice a difference. Q: What do you think is the best 3 channel wheel controller for an antweight? A: Spektrum DX3R. Q: What inexpensive 3 channel 75 MHz transmitter would you suggest? A: The 75 MHz band is on the way out. If you buy an inexpensive 75 MHz radio you're going to need to upgrade soon and nobody is going to want to buy your outdated R/C system. Buying the Spektrum radio will save you money and trouble in the long run. I've said before, I don't recommend scrimping on electronics. Q: What do you do if you are using the Inertia Labs chassis, but the Spectrum BR6000 receiver is to big to fit inside? A: I'd make a new cover for the chassis to fit the BR6000, but I have a feeling you aren't going to be happy 'til I give you the name of a 3 channel 75 MHz pistol grip system. We don't use pistol grip transmitters, but if I wanted an inexpensive 75 MHz pistol system exclusively for antweight use I'd go with the Futaba 3PM. Q: Are there any 2.4 GHz receivers that are the size of the GWS micro receivers? It is supposed to fit in the Inertia Labs chassis. A: Although not as small as the GWS pico receiver, the Futaba R603FF receiver that comes with the 2.4 GHz version of the Futaba 3PM pistol grip system is 1.5" by 1" x 0.55" and will fit in the Inertia Labs chassis next to the Barello ESC. I recommended the Spektrum system over this Futaba because I don't know any robot builders who have used the Futaba 2.4 GHz systems, but the specifications look great and it is less expensive than the Spektrum. Q: Would you suggest the 3 channel 75 MHz Hitech Aggressor SRX-3 for a inexpensive antweight transmitter? A: There are two different 75 MHz Hitech Aggressors: AM and FM. The AM Aggressor is very cheap, but combat robots create a lot of electrical 'noise' that interferes with AM radio. AM radios are not allowed for robots with active weapons, and not at all in some competitions. I cannot recommend that you purchase an AM radio. The FM Aggressor is more expensive than the Futaba 3PM and has no useful additional features. I like Futaba. Q: Can the Futaba 3PM 3 Channel transmitter use a GWS micro receiver as the receiver? A: No. The GWS receivers work well with 4 channel and higher transmitters, but there have been many problems reported by builders trying to use them with 2 and 3 channel transmitters. Something's different about the signal coding in transmitters with less than 4 channels. Q: I'm thinking about using a Futaba 14MZ 2.4GHz Radio System for my antweight. I only have $80, and I can't find the price of the 14MZ. Can you tell me how much it costs and if its a good radio for me? A: You can't find the price of the 14MZ??? I put "Futaba 14MZ" into Google and it spit prices all over me. Very nice radio, but a little out of your price range. Street price is about $2300. We could have saved a lot of time if you'd mentioned your budget at the start. Q: So ant robots competing at Robogames 2008 cannot use a 75mhz frequency?
A: Mark J. here: once again, Robogames has screwed up their ruleset with conflicting statements. We had the same problem last year. Section 4 of the Robogames ruleset says ants can use any approved ground frequency, even AM radio. It says ants require no drive failsafe. It says ants do not require coded radio as long as their weapons will failsafe. It also says:
This effectively restricts all weight classes to 2.4 GHz spread spectrum systems.
Last year, under the same confused ruleset, Robogames did let antweights compete with 75 MHz systems. It is unclear if that was a one-year exemption. I can only recommend that you write to Dave Calkins (dcalkins@robolympics.net) and ask for clarification. Let me know what you find out. Q: Dear Aaron, is the inexpensive GWS transmitter that Inertia Labs sells 4 channel or 6 channel? Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of that GWS transmitter? A: GWS offers both 4 and 6 channel systems. The Inertia Labs desciption of the GWS transmitter is messed up -- the title and picture are of the 4-channel GWT-4A but the text describes the 6-channel GWT-6A. The price matches up to the 6-channel unit, but the receiver offered is 4-channel. I'd suggest refering to Robot Marketplace and their GWS systems. Their descriptions are correct and their price for the equivalent transmitter and receiver package is the same. The GWS radios are low-end, no frills systems. They do not have any computerized functions, mixing, or failsafes. Their only advantage is low price. I'm not a fan of skimping on electronics. Q: I accidentally put the connector on a 7.4 volt battery into two of the pins of a GWS pico receiver. There was a big puff of smoke. Can I do anything or do I have to buy a new receiver? A: A big puff of smoke is always a bad sign. I'll assume you've tried hooking the receiver up correctly and seeing if it works? I wouldn't get my hopes up, but depending on which two pins you happened to overvolt it's possible that you just blew out one channel output. Try it. Even if it's fried, it probably won't be the worst mistake you'll make in robot combat. We've made some really big ones! Q: My Spektrum DX6 radio crapped out, so I replaced it with a DX6i. I have 3 models with programmed AR6000 receivers in them. How do I bind the old AR6000 receivers to the new DX6i? Will I have to reprogram them?
A: Mark J. here: the DX6i is compatible with the AR6000 receiver, although some people have reported problems getting the receiver to bind. Keep the transmitter at least 6 feet away from the receiver during the binding. It may take a few tries.
Repeat for each receiver. Your prior receiver programming should be intact. Q: My old JR receiver had most of it's antenna eaten up by a drum at it's last event. I was considering using the MicroBotParts receiver, but those are no longer being produced. Space is tight, so my only option now is the GWS pico receiver as sold by Inertialabs. My ant is a spinner -- will this receiver failsafe properly? A: An antweight with an active weapon requires an FM radio, and the weapon must shut down on loss of radio signal. The MicroBotParts and GWS pico receivers are both FM-PPM single conversion receivers, but FM-PPM radio systems do not themselves provide a failsafe. Check this: explanation of FM-PPM and FM-PCM radio systems. Some weapon motor controllers, like the Team Delta Solid State D-Switch, have failsafe circuitry built in that is independent of the radio system. Alternately, several manufacturers make tiny failsafe modules that plug in betwwen the receiver and the controller. Either of these options would meet the weapon failsafe requirement. If your old JR receiver provided correct failsafe, I'd suggest soldering a new antenna wire onto it. Q: I'm building my first robot, but I don't know much about radio control. What is the difference between a 3 channel radio and a 4 channel radio? A: A 'channel' has the ability to independently control one item on your robot, like speed and direction instructions for motor(s) on one side of the robot. Two channels could control motors on each side of the robot, and a third channel could control activation of a weapon. A single channel can control mutiple motors, as long as they are all doing the same thing at the same time. Note that there are also two two basic designs for R/C transmitters: 'pistol grip' and 'twin stick'.
Q: I want a circuit design having astable multivibrator output 12 volt a voltage amplifier convert 12 volt to 24 volt to a relay. A: Mark J. here: good morning, and how are things in Mumbai? If I understand your request, you're looking for a circuit design to convert 12 volts to 24 volts to power a relay. I'd rewind the relay for 12 volts, but if you want to do it the hard way take a look at Harry Lythall's Practical Voltage Converter. Q: How do battery eliminator circuits work? What is a good one? How do I set them up?
A: Mark J. here: I hope you don't think that you can run your 'bot without a battery!
A battery eliminator circuit (BEC) is a voltage regulator or converter that takes the voltage from your main battery pack and reduces it to 5 volts to power the radio receiver. This allows you to 'eliminate' the separate battery pack for radio gear.
Most small electronic speed controllers (ESC) have a BEC built in. High quality stand-alone BECs are available for larger applications from Team Delta.
There is no set-up required for the built-in BECs; just plug your receiver into the ESC and connect the ESC to your battery pack. The ESC will feed power back to the receiver thru the 3-wire connector. The Team Delta units come with full instructions and require four solder connections. Q: If a voltage regulator can take a larger voltage and bring it down to 5 volts, could it also take 24 volts and bring it down to 12 volts? That way I could run my 12 volt drive from my 24 volt weapon battery pack.
A: The bad news is that voltage regulators and converters are limited in the amperage they can provide. A radio receiver takes far less current than your drive system. A regulator with enough capacity for your drive would be very expensive, bulky, and heavy.
The good news is that you don't need a voltage regulator to run your 12 volt drive from your 24 volt battery. If your transmitter has 'ATV' (Adjustable Throttle Volume) you can set the transmitter to send a maximum 1/2 throttle signal to your drive ESC -- your drive motors will only 'see' 12 volts from the speed controller. As long as your ESC can handle 24 volts, you're home free. Q: What is a 'gyro'? Q: Do you have to put a gryo in a `bot? A: Absolutely not. Very few combat robots use gyros, but many that are difficult to control would be better off if they did. Q: Can a Vex radio controller be used to control a bot? A: The only electronics from a Vex Robotics Kit that can be used with combat robot components is the R/C transmitter. Nothing else will interface with standard hobby electronics. Search for 'Vex' on this archive page for more info. Q: How does the new Spektrum DX6i radio system compare to the old DX6? Is it better?
A: Mark J. here: I haven't had my hands on a new DX6i yet, but the DX6i manual (13.3 megabyte PDF) goes over the new features:
Q: I just wanted to let you know, the Robot Marketplace removes the AR6000 if you purchase the BR6000 receiver with the DX6. I'm not sure if this is the case with the DX6i, but it's likely. A: It's a different deal. Robot Marketplace was able to substitute the BR6000 for the AR6000 receiver at no cost with the Spektrum DX6 system. The new DX6i system comes with the AR6200 receiver for $180, and for an additional $50 you buy the BR6000 robot receiver. For $230 you get both receivers. Q: Can I "unbind" a Spektrum BR6000 receiver from a specific transmitter if I need to? A: The simple way is to bind the receiver to a new transmitter. That will unbind it from the old transmitter. If you want to unbind without a new bind:
Q: I've got problems with my new robot turning around and not going forward or backward like it should. I'm using a Futaba 9CAP transmitter and a Vantec RDFR23 speed controller. I'm set-up to use the right joystick for all the driving. Vantec already has mixing built in, the speed controller's 2 cables are S = steering and T = throttle. I followed the instructions for the transmitter programming on madoverlord.com for the 9CAP.
A: Mark J. here: the mixing instructions for the 9CAP at Mad Overlord assume that your speed controller has no mixing capability. You can set up either your 9CAP or your RDFR23 to mix, but not both!
Q: Is it possible to use barcoding to program a real combat robot? A: Yes, but I don't know why you'd want to. Q: What is the equation to determine the size of the capacitors I need to place on my motors to best absorb energy spikes and reduce radio interferance without slowing motor response? A: Mark J. here: electrical noise reduction is more of an art than a science. The optimum capacitance value varies with the RPM and load on the motor, so there is no single 'best' value for a combat robot application. Try 0.1uF as a starting point. See also the Team Delta Application Note #1 on reducing motor electrical noise. Q: Can I use LiPoly and NiMH batteries in one robot as long as they don't intersect at all? (Different ESCs, no BEC, ect.) A: Sure. The problem comes if you try to use different battery types wired in series or parallel for a common current draw. Don't do that! Q: I'm considering the Thunder Power 2200mAH LiPoly Quad Cell 4S 14.8V Pack - Extreme Series for my featherweight. How much should I expect the actual amp-hours to vary from the stated? A: Mark J. here: all battery types have reduced amp-hour output under heavy current draw. How much reduction depends on the internal resistence of the battery and the discharge rate. Thunder Power claims very low internal resistence and very little reduction in amp/hour capacity at high current draw for their latest series of extreme performance LiPoly batteries (chart). The R/C helicopter guys say the chart is about right. Under combat robot loads, you can expect very close to the full rated power from a fresh Thunder Power battery pack. Q: Could I run 2 of my Astroflight 110 chargers off one power supply? A: There's no such thing as a free lunch. An AstroFlight 110D charger can pull up to 16 amps at full output. If your power supply can't pump out 32 amps then you can't run two 110Ds at full output, but you might get away with two at less than maximum charge rate. Q: Can I replace the 12 volt, 10 amp lead acid batery in my electric bike with a 12 volt, 10 amp LiPoly battery? Is a 500 watt rc compabile with a 500 watt pancake motor?
A: Mark J. here: LiPoly batteries don't come in exactly 12 volts -- but then your lead acid battery wasn't exactly 12 volts either. The closest you can get in LiPoly would be 11.1 volts for a 3-cell battery. Two problems:
As for your second question, I don't know what you mean by a '500 watt rc'. If you are talking about R/C speed controllers, they are rated by maximum amperage draw and voltage. Again, you would need to determine the maximum amperage draw under operating conditions of the 500 watt motor you reference and match that to a specific speed controller. Q: Can I wire SLA and NiMH batteries in parallel? A: Mark J. here: do not mix dissimilar batteries! Way too many things could go wrong and result in a battery explosion. I can't figure out why you'd want to mix SLAs and NiMHs. Q: What kind of trickle charger should I use with SLA batteries? A: You don't want a trickle charger for combat robot applications. Trickle charging simply supplies a very limited current at an appropriate voltage. Is is designed to charge a battery over a long time period or maintain the charge on a battery between infrequent uses. If your SLA is an automotive/motorcycle/marine type, an appropriate charger can be purchased at an auto supply store. Note that some specialty SLA batteries do not respond well to trickle charging. Hawker batteries for example must be charged at a high initial amperage rate or they loose capacity. Check with the manufacturer of your battery for their charging recommendations if in doubt. Q: If my 'bot lost its radio signal, would my Spektrum DX6 radio failsafe cause my solenoid actuated spinner to stop? A: The Spektrum BR6000 receiver can be programmed to failsafe to any input position on any channel. Instructions for programming the BR6000 receiver are at the Spektrum website. If you program your weapon channel to failsafe to "off" position it will shut off the R/C switch controlling your weapon solenoid when signal is lost. The Spektrum AR6000 receiver does not have full failsafe capacity and is not legal for robots that require failsafes on weapon and drive systems. Q: To reverse a servo, would I just switch the positive and negative wires? Also, to wire two servos on the same channel, would I just wire the two servos in parallel? Thanks. A: Do not switch the polarity of the servo - instant fried electronics. Almost all hobby R/C transmitters have a 'servo reverse' switch or function that will invert the servo direction. Use that! You can also buy a tiny electronic servo reverser that plugs in between the receiver and servo. You can wire two servos in parallel and plug them into a single receiver output. Your local hobby shop can provide a 'Y-connector' for that purpose, or you can splice the wires yourself Q: How do I wire a servo so that it's powered directly from the battery instead of the receiver? I know I'll probably burn out a few, but I have many extras, so it's fine.
A servo lead has three wires:
Note: although extensively used in the past, servos are inferior to other insect class drivetrains. I don't recommend them. Q: Which competition required spinners to use gyros to prevent the death spin? I remember something about that in the RFL rules previously, but I can't find it in the same draft. A: Gyros don't prevent the death spin, they CAUSE the death spin if they invert. See the gyro guide for info. I don't know of any event which has either required or disallowed the use of gyros. Q: I bought a Gardner crimping tool. How do I use it to crimp my 45 amp powerpoles? A: Mark J. here: the inexpensive Gardner crimper is best used with the 30 amp Anderson Powerpole connectors. The contacts for the 15, 30, and 45 amp connectors are the same, so actual power capacity of the connectors are also the same -- about 100 amps. The difference is in the size of wire the connectors will accept. The 30 amp powerpoles will accept up to 10 gauge wire (really). You may want to solder the 45 amp connectors rather than trying to crimp them. See: www.w5fc.org/pse_docs/KNOWLEDGE/anderson_powerpole_instructions.htm for instructions on crimping with the Gardner tool. Q: Is it legal for several bots to share one transmitter? A: Sure. Most teams have only a single transmitter that they use for all of their 'bots. One word of caution: at some large tournaments the insect classes run in a small arena at the same time that the larger 'bots are fighting in the big arena. In that case you may need a backup driver and a spare transmitter. Same deal if you have more than one 'bot entered in a single weight class -- you may end up fighting yourself! Q: If you end up fighting yourself, can't you forfeit one of ur bots and still win?
A: Mark J. here: --- WEAK! ---
If you enter a robot in a tournament you should be prepared to fight it under any and all circumstances; if not for your pride then for the benefit of the spectators. Allowing such a forfeit would be at the discretion of the event organizer. I'd throw both your 'bots out. Q: How do I tell if a radio can use failsafe? I'm looking to buy an R/C system for under $200 from Robot Marketplace. A: If a radio system has failsafe capability, it will say so somewhere in the descriptive text -- it's a feature they want you to know about! AM and regular FM (PMM) systems do not failsafe. Coded FM (PCM or IPD), 900 MHz, and 2.4 GHz systems will failsafe. Part of the problem you're having is that Robot Marketplace currently sells only one radio system under $200 that is full failsafe: the Spektrum DX6 2.4 GHz with BR6000 receiver. Note: All Spektrum 2.4 GHz systems failsafe, but systems with the AR6000 receiver fail to the last speed setting received from the transmitter. This is not legal for robot combat which requires drive and weapon systems to stop on signal loss. The Spektrum BR6000 receiver corrected this problem. Q: How can I calculate the battery capacity needed for my S28-150 Magmotor powered drum weapon?
A: Mark J. here: lots of variables! Rule of thumb: a typical spinner adds about 40% to the capacity needed for the drive motors.
If you're determined to go thru some rough calculations, you can use the Team Run Amok Spinning Weapon Excel Spreadsheet to calculate the energy capacity of your weapon in joules. Each time the weapon is depleted and must spin up it will consume approximately:
Additionally, the weapon motor will consume some power just maintaining the weapon at speed. This can be very roughly approximated by:
Example: a S28-150 motor spinning up a 10,000 joule weapon 5 times during a 3 minute match:
Q: Can I use the GWS GWT-4A 75Mhz FM R/C System in a battle if I have a spinning weapon? A: The current RFL rules require all robots with active weapons to have fail-safe electronics which will stop all robot motion if the radio signal is lost. Robots weighing 12 pounds or above must use FM radio with PCM or IPD coding, or digital 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz systems. The GWS GWT-4A does not meet any of these requirements. It may be used for passive weapon robots up to 12 pounds, or for active weapon robots up to 6 pounds if add-on fail-safes are included. Note that a few tournaments now require digital 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz systems for all robots. Check with the specific event organizer to be sure. Q: Are there any mixing functions in the Spektrum DX6 I can use in my two wheeled 'bot? A: The Spektrum DX6 is a full-featured R/C system. It has multiple pre-set and custom programmable mixes and couplings built in. A full description is in the owners manual. Q:The modified RFL rules adopted by Robogames state:
But then:
4.4.5. RC systems on the AM band are allowed at this event for robots up to 12 lbs with no active weapons. 4.4.6. All robots that are either: a.) 30 lbs or above or b.) 12 lbs or above with an active weapon MUST use a radio systems on the FM band with PCM, IPD coding, a digitally coded 900 MHz or 2.4GHz system (for example IFI), or an approved custom control system. So, would I be able to use a normal FM system with my Antweight? A: Mark J. here: From the discussion on the on-line forums, I think the intent is to require ALL combat robots at Robogames to run 'spread spectrum' radio systems -- sections 4.4.4 thru 4.4.6 should have been removed. However, I've always had trouble with Dave Calkins' logic. Write to him for clarification: dcalkins@robotics-society.org. Dave sometimes ignores his email, so 'cc' a copy of your question to Simone Davalos: simone@robotics-society.org.
Q: I talked to Dave Calkins. He told me:
A: Six words? I guess that helps a little, but it still leaves beetles, sublights, and AM radio uncertain. Robogames was once a popular and well-run event. I'm sorry to see it fall into confusion. Q: Would it be possible to charge two 12 volt BattlePacks as one on an AstroFlight 110 Deluxe charger? What about two 24V packs? Would it just depend how they're wired? A: The AstroFlight 110D can charge up to 24 NiCad or NiMHd cells in series. That's a nominal 28.8 volts. A single 12 volt pack can be charged at up to 8 amps, but the maximum charge rate starts to drop above 14.4 volts. A single 24 volt pack (or two 12 volt packs in series) can be charged at a maximum 5 amps. It's possible to charge multiple packs in parallel, but the charge amperage gets split between the packs. Two 24 volt packs charging in parallel would each charge at only 2.5 amps maximum. That won't save any time compared to charging each pack by itself. If you need to charge higher voltage packs or multiple packs in series, pay a few extra dollars for the AstroFlight 112D. It can charge up to 40 cells in series (48 volts nominal), can pump 8 amps into a single 12 or 24 volt pack, and can charge two 24 volt packs in series at 4 amps. You might also consider the ElectriFly Triton2 charger. Q: How do 2.4 Ghz R/C systems avoid interference without crystals? A: Each time the transmitter is turned on it 'listens' to radio activity on the 2.4 GHz band, selects an unused channel, and transmits a code to the receiver to tell it what channel to use. Your 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz wireless phone works pretty much the same way. More information at Spektrum R/C. Q: So from what you're saying, the 2.4Ghz radio only works with the receiver it comes with? If not, do you have to sync it with a receiver? A: When a 2.4 GHz receiver is used for the first time with a transmitter it has to be 'taught' the receiver's code in a process called 'binding'. You only need to do that once, and you can bind multiple receivers to the same transmitter. Q: Where can I buy sensors for a self-controlled antweight? A: For a start, browse: Q: After seeing Team Tentacle's 'Thinkling' I've decided to go with the Baby Orangutan MCU and two Devantech SRF08 ultrasonic rangefinders. How do I wire all of this? Is there anything else I need for the electronics? Thanks.
Sit down with a good book on autonomous robots, like Robot Programming: A Practical Guide to Behavior-Based Robotics by Joe Jones. Technical information on how to communicate with the SRF08 is at the Devantech website, and the Pololu website has links to documentation for the Baby Orangutang.
Once you're confident that you can 'wire up' and program the robot controller and peripherals, write back and we can discuss design issues and combat theory. Q: Will one radio be compatible with all bots as long as the bot and radio have the same crystal?
A: Mark J. here: it isn't quite that simple. AM systems are incompatible with FM systems. 'Negative shift' coding (Futaba, Hitec) is not compatible with 'positive shift' (Airtronics and JR). Some 'third party' receivers can use either shift pattern. If the transmitter and receiver have the same coding, operate on the same frequency band (27/49/50/53/75/900/2400 MHz), and use the same modulation (AM or FM) then yes, matched frequency crystals (75 MHz and lower) will probably make them compatible. The 900 and 2400 MHz radios do not use crystals.
Stick with a single manufacturer for transmitters and receivers and you should be OK. Q: Is the GWS GWT-4A 75Mhz FM R/C System a good system for a first time bot builder? I'm going to make an ant to start out with so I make $3 mistakes instead of $300 ones while building my 'bot. A: For your first R/C system, you can:
The GWS GWT-4A has no fail safe capability, no channel mixing, no dual rates, no exponential response, no receiver battery pack, and it will require at least one extra set of frequency crystals for competition use. Just plain vanilla R/C. It's cheap to purchase (a little over $100, with listed options), but it's also gonna return little of the purchase price when you go to sell it -- and you're gonna need a better system as soon as you move up past the hobbyweight class or go to an active weapon. For less than $200 you can purchase a system like the Spektrum DX6 with the BR6000 receiver. You'll get all the features you're gonna need for any practical combat robot in any weight class. It requires no extra crystals, has full fail-safes, three channel mixes, dual rates, exponential response, a receiver battery pack, and four micro servos that you don't need and can sell on EBay to further reduce the price. If you should decide that combat robots aren't your thing, you can sell the Spektrum for a good price to someone who made the $100 mistake of buying a cheap system for their first robot. Q: Are 2.4ghz systems legal in the featherweight and above weight classes?
A: Sure -- the 2007 RFL Standard Extensible Rule Set allows use of any ground-legal frequency (27/49/50/53/75/900/2400 MHz in the United States) in any weight class. See the
Q: How do I control the two articulated halves of a robot with a design like 'Flexy Flier' with only one transmitter?
A. The usual solution is to use one transmitter and two receivers all on the same frequency. Put one receiver in each articulated section, plug the local ESC or weapon controller into the appropriate output slot and you're set. It's more reliable than running long extension leads from one side to the other and risking failure from flexed and twisted wires. Some non-articulated 'bots also use two receivers for redundant back-up. JuggerBot / Tricerabot used twin receivers for separate dual-channel front and rear speed controllers. If either receiver or ESC failed, they could continue the match with at least partial power. Q: Is there any advantage of using a Vex Transmitter-Receiver as compared to a HiTec Laser 6? We do not need to program, it will be only RC driven. A: The Vex Robotics System radio control gear has a different data format than hobby R/C systems. It is not compatible with standard combat robot components. Use the HiTec!
Comment: I have some information to add to your answer to the question about the Vex radio system. The Vex transmitter uses pretty much standard Futaba data encoding, it's the receiver that's the problem. If you replace the receiver the system works just fine with standard R/C equipment.
I've tested the Vex transmitter with Microbotparts and Futaba AS receivers. They work well and can even use the Vex crystals. Microbotparts have a 6 channel receiver available for $29.95, though it is not on the webite -- just ask. I've also used the Vex transmitter with the Sombra Shadow 3 and Polk Hobbies' Seeker 6 synthesized receivers. All Electronics is selling the Vex transmitter/receiver set with crystals for $29.95 -- shipping is $7 regardless of quantity.
Great site, keep up the good work. [Wreno - North Texas Battle Group - BattleBots on the water with a WW2 theme]
Reply: Thanks, Wreno. I knew the data outputs of the Vex system weren't compatible with standard R/C, but didn't know the source of the problem. A 6-channel transmitter with crystals for that price is a bargain, but robot guys should be aware that the Vex transmitter has only primitive channel mixing and no ATV, fail safes, exponential response, or dual rates. Q: How do you control a bot that uses automotive steering? The only way I can can think of is to use a pistol grip radio. A: A pistol grip radio will work, but we use standard twin-stick transmitters: left stick forward and back for the speed controller, right stick 'side to side' controls the steering servo. No mixing required. You could put both throttle and steering on one stick, but we like them separate. We set up our differential steering 'bots the same way, throttle on left stick and steering on the right, using elevon mixing. See our transmitter programming guide for more info on channel mixing. Q: How do I get an 'inverted' switch and how do I wire it?
A: Mark J. here: when an invertible robot is flipped upside down, left / right steering response remains correct but the throttle response is reversed; a forward transmitter command will back the robot up and vice versa. An 'inverted' switch reverses the response of your throttle to compensate for this, but you don't usually add-on an inverted switch -- it's already there:
Q: Is a 50 MHz radio legal to use on a bot?
A: Mark J. here: the Robot Fighting League accepts use of 27/49/50/53/75/900/2400 MHz radio systems for combat robot control in the USA, as long as the radio system has the required failsafe protocol for your weight class and weapon type. However, you must have an amateur radio operator license to legally operate a radio transmitter on either 50 or 53 MHz.
Be sure to check with the event organizer to make certain they don't require some specific radio type. Some events are talking about going to only 2400 MHz 'spread spectrum' radios. Q: How come a 72 MHz radio is not legal to use on ground-based vehicles? A: Model aircraft are particularly sensitive to interference because their altitude gives them increased 'line of sight' reception. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) made 72 MHz 'airborne only' to assure R/C pilots of clear channels without interference from somebody playing with an R/C dune buggy in a backyard miles away. To even things out, 75 MHz is restricted to 'surface only' uses. All other approved R/C frequencies may be used for either surface or air. Q: My 'bot has Lexan plastic side armor and an aluminum top, bottom, and front. Will the radio signals go through OK if the antenna is internal? A: You have to pretty much fully enclose an antenna in a box of metal or other conductive material to block the radio signal by forming a Faraday cage. You'll want to keep your antenna spaced away from the metal surfaces and any source of electrical 'noise', but the signal will be able to penetrate thru the plastic sidewalls. Check the Combat Robot Wiki article on Radio Reception Problems for more info. Q: Is a 2.4 GHZ radio considered coded FM? A: The 2007 RFL Ruleset says:
So, digital 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz radio systems are cleared to control any weight class 'bot with either active or inactive weaponry -- equivalent to coded FM. Q: Can R/C signals go through UHMW polyethylene? A: Non-conductive materials like wood, glass fiber composites, and plastics are transparent to commonly used R/C radio frequencies. Q: Is there any advantage of using a Vex Transmitter-Receiver as compared to a HiTec Laser 6? We do not need to program, it will be only RC driven. A: The Vex Robotics System radio control gear has a non-standard data output format from the receiver. It is not compatible with standard combat robot components. Use the HiTec! Q: Is it true that radio signals can't go through carbon fiber? If it is, how do bots covered in carbon fiber work? And can R/C permeate metal, or is that why most bots have at least a tiny polycarbonate window? A: Both metal and carbon fiber block radio signals. If the metal or carbon armor completely encloses the 'bot, the radio antenna must stick out thru the armor, or be mounted under a radio-transparent 'window'. See the Radio Reception Problems article at the Combat Robotics Wiki for more info. Q: In LiPo battery performance stats, the maximum discharge rate is often given as 'XC', where X is a number. Is this some other form of measurement, or does that stand for constant? A: The 'C' relates to the capacity of the battery pack: a pack with a capacity of 3000 mAh has a 'C' of 3000 mA, or 3 amps. If the maximum discharge rate for that pack is given as '20C', it would be 20 times 3 amps = 60 amps. If you exceed the maximum discharge rate you will risk overheating and damaging the pack, and even setting the pack on fire! Q: How do I configure the radio system for a four or three wheeled omnibot? Where would I buy the mixer? A: Robotlogic.com makes a three-wheel omni mixer called the OMX-3. I don't know of any commercially available four-wheel mixers, but a computerized radio transmitter with multiple user-defined mixes can be programmed to handle the task. With the mixer installed, you may assign any stick axis you like for forward / reverse, left / right, and rotate. Search the Ask Aron archive for more information on omnibots. Q: Is it safe to connect my HSR-5995TG digital robot servo to a 7.4V Li-poly battery? When the Li-poly is fully charged, it's around 8.4V, and I'm afraid of burning out the servo electronics. A: All freshly charged rechargeable battery packs will read a higher resting voltage than their rating. When placed under load, the voltage will drop down toward the rated voltage. Hitec says the servo will run on a 7.4 volt LiPoly, so don't worry about the extra volt in the resting state -- run it! Q: A couple of times I've drained my 3-cell Lipoly battery down until the weapon ESC starts cutting off at 9 volts. Am I harming my battery? Will I get less cycles out of the pack? Will this effect the battery's capacity and discharge rate? What is the average number of cycles for a lithium polymer battery? A: Mark J. here: a three-cell lithium polymer battery can be safely drained down to 8.4 volts, so running into the 9 volt cutoff is fine. The usual cause of damage to Lipoly batteries is overheating caused by too high a discharge rate. Temperatures over 140 degrees can damage or destroy the pack. Leave some space around the battery for cooling air circulation and keep the discharge rate within the manufacturer's spec. A well cared for Lipoly battery can exceed 1000 charge/discharge cycles. Check the Electrifly Lipoly Manual for more tips on care and disposal. Q: I need to be able to spin my 'bot in place to keep the heavy front scoop pointed toward my opponent. Will a controller that mixes channels like Vantec be capable of spinning one wheel one way and the other wheel the other way, or do I need to drive 'tank style' with one stick assigned to each controller to get that? A: You can mix channels with a computerized transmitter, a plug-in electronic mixer, or a twin-channel controller with built-in mixing. All of them produce the same control style: one control channel (stick axis or throttle trigger) moves the 'bot forward and back, while a second channel (stick axis or wheel) controls turning. If you activate only the turning channel, the 'bot will spin in place without moving forward or back -- just like throwing the control sticks in opposite directions when working tank-style. Q: I'm building a sumo robot for competition and I was wondering what the differences are with the different types of batteries? Is it possible to just use alkaline 9v batteries to power my motors? The motors that I plan to use are modified Black and Decker screwdrivers. Thanks!
A: Mark J. here: even small combat robots don't use alkaline batteries! Alkalines are designed to operate in devices with a low current requirement. They cannot provide anywhere near the peak current that NiCad or NiMHd rechargeable batteries can, and in a permanent magnet DC motor current equals torque.
A typical alkaline 9-volt battery can provide just over 1 amp of current, and will last a VERY short time at that current draw. Your screwdriver motors will need at least 5 amps each to develop their full pushing torque potential. A sumo robot that can't push is pretty useless.
A modern AA size NiCad or NiMHd cell can pump out 8 to 10 amps of torque-grinding current and keep it up long enough for a full sumo match. An 8-cell pack will give you a nominal 8.4 volts and would be a far better choice for your 'bot than 9-volt alkalines. Simple chargers for NiCad / NiMHd packs are inexpensive and the charging process is uncomplicated.
Your other choice is a lithium polymer battery. LiPolys are very light and compact for their power capacity, but are more expensive and have lower peak current capacity than NiCads or NiMHd packs of equivalent amp/hour rating. LiPolys also require a different type of charger than other rechargeable packs -- never try to charge a LiPoly battery with a charger not specifically designed for the purpose. A good article on LiPoly care can be found at electrifly.com
Q: How do I make a 'Y' shape in my wire?
A: Twist three wires together, solder, and insulate with heat-shrink tubing. Do not use 'bullet crimp' or 'twist' connectors on a combat robot -- they can fail under impact and vibration. Use stranded wire instead of solid-core for the same reason. Q: Could I make a 'Y' shape in my wire with 3 ring terminal conectors held together with a nut and bolt?
Don't do that! You'd have three 'crimp' connections each subject to failure, plus a nut and bolt that could vibrate loose. It would also be heavy and bulky. Even though I don't like them, you'd be better off using a 'wire nut' twist connector to hold your three wires together. Best solution: learn to solder.
Will I be able to use just one control stick (forward, backward, left, right) to control the movement of my robot, or will I have to use two sticks, one for each motor? Thanks!
A: Take a look at my dad's Beginners guide to combat robot gyros page.
R/C gyros are NOT COMPATIBLE with either two-stick (tank style) steering or transmitter mixed single-stick steering. If you're using a gyro, you'll need to use either a stand-alone plug-in electronic channel mixer between your gyro and the ESC, or use an ESC with built-in mixing. Either of these will give you single-stick control.
Many dual-channel ESCs offer built-in mixing: Barello ANT, SOZBots M, Scorpion XL, Vantec RDFR, etc. Check before you buy.
A: Most combat robots turn by 'skid steering' where the wheels on one side of the 'bot turn at a different speed and/or in a different direction than the wheels on the other side. This requires independent control of drive motors on each side of the 'bot. You can operate this type of 'bot by controlling the two sides of the 'bot with vertical motion of the two control sticks on a 'stick' style R/C transmitter (called 'tank steering') but most drivers prefer forward/reverse speed control with vertical motion of one stick and steering with horizontal motion of either the same or the second stick.
By electronically 'mixing' the output of two R/C channels, you can have the vertical motion of one stick (or the throttle trigger on a 'pistol' style transmitter) instruct both drive motors to move the 'bot forward or backward, and the horizontal motion of a stick (or the 'pistol' steering knob) tell the motors to spin at different speeds. This is called 'differential steering'.
More expensive R/C equipment and some dual-channel motor controllers have channel mixing capability built-in. See our transmitter programming guide for more info on computerized radio transmitters, and our electronic gyro guide for help integrating mixers with gyros. If your equipment does not have mixing built in, you can buy a small electronic channel mixer that plugs into your system between the receiver and the speed controllers that will provide the same functions.
I have two ANT 100 ESCs. I plan to connect two drive motors to one and two weapon motors to the other. Can I connect the two ESCs to one 7.2V NiCad battery? Will the battery be able to provide the power for the two ESC and the four motors? If not, what voltage do I need? Do I need one battery for each ESC?
Thank You.
A: Thanks for your compliment about the site!
The short answer to your question is yes -- you can connect multiple Electronic Speed Controllers to a single battery if you connect them as parallel circuits. See the diagram and description of basic robot wiring in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the archive.
The longer answer involves the capacity of your battery to provide the current needed by your motors. Your battery must be able to supply enough current (not voltage) to meet the demands of all the motors at once. NiCad batteries can provide a lot of current to meet heavy load conditions, but if the load becomes too great the voltage output will drop. The Ant 100 ESC also supplies power to your radio receiver and if the voltage drops your receiver can start to 'glitch'. Other types of batteries are less able to meet high amperage drains. Lithium batteries can dangerously overheat if the current demand gets too high, resulting in damage to the battery and even fire!
Adding extra cells to your battery pack to raise the voltage is not a good solution. Higher voltage will create a demand by your motors for even more current and your voltage fluctuation will increase. Add up the maximum current consumption for all four of your motors and use a battery with enough capacity to meet that demand.
One last thing: I mentioned above that the Ant 100 supplies power to your radio receiver. Since you'll be using two Ant 100s, you might run into trouble with both of them trying to power the receiver. You'll want to remove both of the red wire connections from the receiver cables coming from one of the ESCs -- either one. You can clip the red wires, desolder them from the circuit board, or remove the connectors from the receiver plugs.
Select a power plug and wires rated for at least the maximum output of your charger. Find a mounting spot protected from damage but with easy access. The jack will be 'live' to the main battery power, so protect it from accidental shorting!
The jack is wired into the main power cables, between the battery disconnect plug (optional, but handy) and the master power switch. See the diagram at right for details. Check the event rules to determine what type of master power switch is required for your weight class -- a 'removable link' disconnect may be required.
With this set-up, the battery may be charged with the master power switch 'off' for safety, and the battery may be quickly removed or replaced while the charging jack remains with the 'bot. Q: What type of power plug do you recommend for a heavyweight 'bot charging jack? A: I use Anderson PowerPole connectors for charger plugs on our larger 'bots. They are available in 15/30/45 amp ratings, have no exposed metal, may be crimped or soldered in place, and require no 'heat shrink' insulation. The PowerPole connectors are available at many hobby shops. Pre-assembled wire sets with PowerPole connectors are available thru Team Delta. Q: Hi Aaron: My name is Alan. I have purchased all the parts for a tank robot, but I need help hooking everything up. I have: an R/C system, a twin-channel drive motor ESC, a weapon ESC, a master power switch, a 7.2v NiCad battery, and head and tail that should light up when the robot is turned on. Could you please advise me how to hook all this together? Thank you very much. A: Take a look at the diagram and description of basic robot wiring, Alan. Wire in your power switch where the removable power link is in the diagram -- combat robot tournaments often require a removable link instead of a switch. Your multiple lights will replace the single power indicator light in the diagram. Q: Thanks for your advice. Just to clarify, do I attach three wires to each battery lead and run one + and one - to each ESC and the lights? Thank you very much for your reply. A: That's right, Alan -- the ESCs and lights are connected in parallel to the battery. Don't forget to insert your switch between one battery lead and the device connections. Q: I forgot to ask you this question last time. The different parts for my robot have wires of different gauges. Do I have to replace all the wires in one gauge? Will the robot function with wires in various gauges connecting together? Thanks for your reply. A: Don't worry about the different wire gauges, Alan. The important thing is that the smallest wire in a given circuit is capable of carrying the largest expected current for that circuit. Bigger wire is OK, but smaller wire can overheat under the load, melt thru the insulation, and short out. As long as your robot components are operating within their rated voltage, you should be able to trust that the manufacturer has provided wire of adequate size. Hook 'em up and run 'em! Q: Does the diameter measurement of 18 gauge wire include the plastic wrapping around the wire? A: No -- American Wire Gauge (AWG) sizes measure the conductor only, not counting any insulation. The conductor diameter of 18 gauge wire is about 0.04 inch (1.02 mm). Q: An antenna on my 2.4 GHz Spektrum receiver got sliced during a fight. It now only has 1/3 of it original length. Will that ruin the reception of my receiver? What is the best way to fix this? A: Shortening the antenna that much will certainly reduce reception, but you may still have plenty of range. Give it a test run and see how it does. If you decide to repair the antenna, you can just solder on a length of similar gauge insulated wire to restore the length. Cover the solder joint with heat shrink tubing or a flap of vinyl tape to prevent accidental grounding of the antenna. If you are comfortable soldering PC boards you can open the receiver case, remove the damaged antenna entirely, and solder on a new wire of the correct length. Q: What is impedance? I hear that even if I solder on a length of similar gauge insulated wire to restore the length, I need the correct impedance as well.
A: Mark J. here: Impedance is a measure of the opposition of an electrical component (like an antenna) to an alternating current (like a radio signal). A proper antenna must have its impedance match the other elements of the system to maximize signal strength.
The main factor determining the impedance of your simple wire antenna is length. Restoring the antenna length by soldering on a length of similar wire will restore the impedance to that of the original antenna. Q: I'm having problems controlling my newly finished ant. When I push my drive stick straight forward quickly, the 'bot spins in place. When I do it gradually, the 'bot does go forward but it's not straight. The back direction is fine though. I tried to mess around with the trim but it didn't help that much. My bot is using the Spektrum DX6 radio system with delta wing (elevon) mixing. What do I do?
A: Mark J. here: How quickly you throw the stick forward shouldn't matter to the radio system, so I don't think your problem is entirely with the transmitter set-up.
First, check the set-up procedure in the manual for your Electronic Speed Control (ESC) to make certain that the unit is correctly adjusted to work with your radio. An ESC requires careful adjustment to assure that the motors will respond correctly throughout the entire range of transmitter stick motion. Make certain that your transmitter trim settings are centered during ESC set-up.
Once the ESC is correctly set, the transmitter trim should be adjusted so that both wheels start turning at the same time when the stick is gently pushed forward or back. If you're still veering to one side, reduce the Adjustable Travel Volume (ATV) transmitter setting for the side of the 'bot that is running too fast.
If rapid acceleration is still a problem, check for equal weight on the drive wheels on both sides of the 'bot. If one side of the 'bot has more weight it will get better traction and can cause a spin under hard acceleration. You may need to move some components on the chassis to equalize weight. Backing up may mask the problem by reducing traction to both drive wheels.
For a 4-wheel 'bot, make sure all four wheels are in good contact when the 'bot is on a level surface. Adjust the chassis or motor mounts to correct if required.
For additional help on transmitter set-up, I suggest reading thru my guide to programming radio systems for combat robots. I wrote it with specific reference to Futaba systems, but the general tips are useful for any computer radio. Q: I've seen some people use joysticks to control their 'bot. Where do you get joysticks? A: You probably saw the IFI Isaac Control System that is commonly used at the BattleBots IQ competitions. Some builders use this system at other competitions as well. The IFI system accepts a variety of analog PC joysticks as external controllers. These are the same joysticks you can buy at your computer store. PC joysticks are not compatible with standard R/C transmitters.
Q: I'm having trouble building a battery pack from four 'AA' cells. Can you please show me how it's supposed to be done?
A: Check the diagram at the right to see what gets connected to what. Solder the connections with rosin core solder and a non-acid flux. Watch out for sharp points on your connections that could poke thru insulation -- file smooth any rough edges. Large diameter 'heat shrink' plastic tubes are available at R/C hobby shops that will insulate the pack and hold it all together. Smaller diameter heat shrink does a great job of insulating the connector terminals. Q: How do I connect wires to NiCad batteries? A: NiCad or NiMHd cells come with or without metal tabs welded to either end. You can solder your wires to the tabs or directly to the cells. If you're soldering directly to the cell, you'll need a soldering iron with enough power to do the job quickly without heating up the whole cell -- maybe 25 watts. Use rosin core solder and a little non-acid flux. Q: Can I equip a 27 MHz bot with a lifting servo?
A: Mark J. here: the operating frequency of your radio does not effect the ability of the system to accommodate a lifting servo. However, the 27 MHz band is used by both 'toy' radios and 'hobby-grade' radio systems. Toy radios are not compatible with hobby grade components like servos.
Toy radios in the USA are on either the 27 MHz or 49 MHz bands. Hobby grade radio systems are commonly available in the USA for the 27 MHz, 72 MHz (aircraft only), and 75 MHz (non-aircraft) frequency bands. Q: What is PCM? Is it less susceptible to 'electrical noise' than an FM radio control system?
A: Mark J. here: We need to be careful not to mix apples and oranges:
AM (amplitude modulation)and FM (frequency modulation) are two methods of adding information onto a radio wave. All hobby radios are either AM or FM. Of those two methods, FM is less susceptible to electrical 'noise' interference.
PPM (pulse position modulation) and PCM (pulse code modulation) are two methods of encoding the information for radio control before it is added to the radio wave.
Q: Have you ever seen the bot 'Al'? It has a home made radio system. Where did it get the R/C electronics? A: Mark J. here: Is that the middleweight flamethrower from Minnesota? I don't know about their radio, but the homebrew radio systems I've seen from the few other teams to try it were unreliable and had no advantages over off-the-shelf systems. If you just happen to have a degree in electrical engineering and a lot of time to spend designing, building, and de-bugging a radio system -- go for it. If you want something that works, stick with a professionally built system. Q: Dear Aaron, for the Critter Crunch robot combat tournament you are allowed to have tethered robots. Can you explain how to do this? A: Critter Crunch has been fighting robots for a long time. Their first tournament was years before the first Robot Wars, but their rules are, ummmm... different. They do allow both 2 pound and 20 pound robots to operate with a wire cable instead of radio control. The circuit for each motor and weapon runs from the battery thru a long cable to a control box then back thru the cable to the motor/weapon. The control box has switches and maybe rheostats to control the motors. The cable wires have to be heavy enough to carry the motor current, and the robot has to drag the long, heavy cable behind it. Critter Crunch also allows R/C robots, so why not build a 'bot that can enter other contests? Q: Is there any significant difference between the Victor 885 and Thor 883 speed controllers? A: No functional difference. The only reason Robot Marketplace carries the discontinued Thor 883 is so builders who have a pair and smoke one can get an exact replacement. Q: Can you use an ant weight speed controller in a hobby weight bot? A: Sure - as an expensive smoke bomb. Q: Where can I buy a mixed R/C controller? A: It would save time if people would check Robot Marketplace before asking me any question that starts with "Where can I buy a...". Pretty much any place that sells R/C equipment will offer systems with computerized mixing. For a 'bot, you'll want a system on the 75MHz band. Guess what? Robot Marketplace sells a very nice Hitec Laser 6 FM System for less than $135. Check with your local hobby shop as well. You can also find Electronic Speed Controllers with built-in mixing at (wait for it...) Robot Marketplace. Q: Does BBIQ use the IFI controller? What is the point having these things?
A: Mark J. here: the IFI Isaac Control System has long been the mandatory R/C system for the BattleBots IQ competition. However, the system has been discontinued by IFI, and used systems are in short supply. BBIQ now strongly encourages the use of the Isaac system, but approves alternate systems on a case-by-case basis.
The Isaac controller is a 'smart' system that prevents radio interference and the need for frequency control and transmitter impound at tournaments. This makes things run much more smoothly for the tournament director. The Isaac also interfaces to the tournament computer and allows the director to remotely shut down power to all 'bots instantly - a big safety plus! Q: Can you show me how to connect the receiver to an ESC? A: An ESC designed to interface with a hobby R/C receiver should have a plug already installed that will fit directly into the channel output socket of your choice on the receiver. See the 'bot wiring diagram. Ask the manufacturer of your ESC for additional info, if needed. Q: What is the difference between 27MHz and 49MHz? [zackrocks1994]
A: Mark J. here: radio systems are assigned to operate on specific frequency 'bands'. Both of the frequency bands you mention are available for use by R/C toys. MHz refers to how many million times per second the radio 'cycles' -- 27 million cycles per second for the 27 MHz radio.
Within each band are several specific frequencies to which a radio system may be tuned. A radio tuned to a specific frequency will not interfere with a radio operating on another frequency.
See also this earlier post, and the Radio Frequency Chart at the Combat Robots Wiki. Q: What is the cheapest 2 channel speed controller? A: You can scavenge the speed controller out of a toy or servos if you're really cheap, but remember: 'cheap' and 'combat robot' don't mix. If you're going to invest your time and effort, don't allow cheap components to let you down! Q: What is a 'piezo gyro'? How are they used on combat robots? A: Two-wheeled robots can be difficult to drive in a straight line without veering to one side and they don't turn in a smooth arc. A piezo gyro senses turning motion, compares it the signal coming from the R/C receiver, and adjusts the signal to the electronic speed controller to keep the robot on the course the driver wants. My dad has a whole webpage about gyros and combat robots that should answer any additional questions. Q: How much is the cheapest FM R/C radio system?
A: Mark J. here. The message doesn't seem to be getting thru: cheap and robot combat don't mix. You're going to spend a lot of time and effort building your 'bot and going to the tournament. When some component fails in combat and puts you out of the match, you're gonna wish you hadn't gone cheap.
That said, Tower Hobbies has a Hitec 3-channel pistol grip FM system for $69.99. You'll need either an ESC with built-in mixing or a separate elevon mixer to use it with a 'bot. Inertia Labs will sell you a GWS 4-channel twin-stick FM system for $89.90 (transmitter with crystal $59, micro receiver $21.95, receiver crystal $8.95) that does not require a mixer. Best luck. Q: What are 'R/C crystals'?
A: Mark J. here: a piezoelectric crystal can be made to vary its electrical properties at a very precise frequency. When incorporated into a radio oscillator circuit, the crystal controls the frequency 'channel' on which the set operates. Hobby R/C systems have removable crystals in both the transmitter and receiver that can be replaced with crystals of a slightly different frequency to tune the system to a different channel and avoid interference from other radios.
R/C systems normally come with one set of crystals. Robot tournaments usually require that you have crystals for at least two different channels, so plan to buy a second set. There are different types of crystals for AM, FM single conversion, and FM double conversion -- make sure you get a set that matches your radio. Q: How do you control a tank style drivetrain robot with a spinning weapon when you have two hands and three controls? A: It doesn't take a whole hand to control a R/C channel -- you can easily control two with one finger. R/C airplane guys have to balance throttle, rudder, elevator, aileron, flaps, and landing gear controls. We've got it easy! For a 'bot, throttle and steering take two sticks if you use simple tank-steer, but you can electronically 'mix' two channels and put both throttle and steering on a single stick operated by one thumb. The on/off control for the weapon can be assigned to a toggle switch that you can flip with an index finger. That leaves seven fingers and a thumb that aren't doing anything except holding the transmitter. Different manufacturers have slightly different control layouts, but you can see a diagram of a typical Futaba transmitter and get more radio tips at my dad's page: Programming the Futaba 6XAPs for Combat Robotics. I usually run the weapon from the channel 5 toggle switch. Q: Do LiPoly batteries need to be charged periodically to maintain capacity? I haven't touched my pack for about a month -- do you think the capacity dropped a significant amount? A: Mark J. here: LiPoly batteries have excellent charge retention and capacity recovery after storage. A LiPoly battery stored for six months at room temperature will recover about 95% of its capacity on the first charge cycle. It's still a good idea to discharge/charge cycle your rechargeable battery (LiPoly, NiCad, NiMHd) a couple of times before a competition to assure full capacity. Always follow the manufacturer's procedure for cycling. Q: The R/C toy car I just bought only responds within about 5 feet of me. Can I fix this, or should it just be replaced? A: Make sure the batteries in the car and the transmitter are fresh. If this doesn't help, as a last resort you might want to open up the car to expose the electronics board. There will be a couple of screw adjustments on the board, sealed with a thick, waxy material. Pick one adjuster, scrape away the wax, mark the starting position of the adjuster, and try turning the adjustment screw a little one way and the other to see if the range improves. If not, return it to the starting position and tweak another adjuster. Do NOT try this with the transmitter! Q: Is 49 MHz the same as the AM band?
A: Mark J. here: In the USA the "AM Band" refers to commercial radio broadcast frequencies between 520 kHz and 1720 kHz -- a kilohertz is 1000 cycles per second. 49 MHz (49 million cycles per second) band is a 'public service' frequency range a little below VHF television broadcast. It's shared by older wireless phones, baby monitors, and five toy R/C channels. Other toy R/C systems operate on 27 MHz on six frequencies squeezed in between CB radio channels.
Toy R/C systems on 27 or 49 MHz use interference-prone Amplitude Modulation (AM) signals, but 'hobby grade' R/C gear on 27, 72, and 75 MHz use either AM or FM (Frequency Modulation) signals. Q: Where can I find 75 MHz R/C systems? A: The Robot Marketplace and Tower Hobbies are both good on-line sources of 75 MHz 'ground frequency' radio systems, but don't forget to check with your local hobby shop! It's also possible to have a 72 MHz radio converted to 75 MHz. Tower hobbies offers this service on new systems, and a web search will turn up other specialty shops that will do this. Q: I've found micro receivers to be really glitchy and almost uncontrollable beyond 5 feet. Will using a standard receiver increase the range?
A: Mark J. here: Micro receivers are 'single conversion' designs that are more sensitive to interference than the 'double conversion' design usually found in standard receivers, but if you're only getting 5 feet of reception distance you have problems other than your receiver. Electric motors create a lot of electrical 'noise' that can be a problem -- try adding anti R.F. capacitors across the motor leads. Position the receiver as far away from the motors and ESC as possible. Stretch out the receiver antenna and get it out in the open air, away from metal or carbon armor.
Check the Radio Reception Problems article at the Combat Robotics Wiki for more info on the topic. Q: I've boosted the voltage to my toy R/C controller from 6 volts to 12 volts and it's working fine with the toy R/C motor. What will happen if I try the same 12 volts with a larger motor? A: Tech question, Mark J. here: You'll get a nice puff of smoke followed by a quick trip to the trash bin. Solid state switching controls are rated for a maximum amperage flow. Doubling the voltage to a motor also doubles the maximum amperage, so you've already taken the unit to twice it's design limit. I suspect that if you got into a pushing match you'd fry the controller as is. Bigger motor = more amperage = thermal meltdown. Note that not many R/C receivers can handle 12 volts -- try that at your own peril. Q: How does an R/C system actually control a robot? A: A remote control transmitter sends variable control signals for several `channels' based on stick, switch, and knob positions on the transmitter. The receiver deciphers the signal and sends separate signals to the channel ports. You can plug various devices into channel ports that read the signals and turn them into mechanical action (servos), variable current flow (electronic speed controllers), or on/off switches (R/C switches). Connect drive motors to the speed controllers, a lifter to the servo, and a weapon to the R/C switch and you've got control of your robot. For more on robot control systems, see: 4QD Robot Control website. Q: Is any programming required for ESCs and the radio system? A: Some combat robot ESCs have a short set-up process, but it isn't programming. Some brushless motor controllers have more elaborate programming capability, but most work fine with the default settings. More sophisticated radio systems can be programmed by selecting options from menus for things like channel mixing, but it isn't required to provide basic radio functions. See my dad's page on programming transmitters for details. Q: Can I use 22 awg wire to connect electronic components in my antweight?
A: Tech question, Mark J. here: AWG wire sizes run opposite from the way you'd think, with larger numbers indicating smaller diameter wire. For small wire, amperage capacity approximately doubles with each decrease of three number sizes (thicker wire). A 22 gauge copper wire is conservatively rated to carry 7 amps in conditions found in a combat robot. You might get away with it, but I'd suggest 18 gauge for at least the battery to ESC hookup -- or you could use double strands of 22 gauge if that's what you have.
Always use 'multi-strand' wire in your robot, not solid-core. Solid core can break from repeated flexing and shock. Q: Are there differences between micro receivers and standard receivers other than size?
A: Technical question - Mark J. here: Yes, there are a few:
Most quality standard receivers use 'dual conversion' frequency crystals, while most micro receivers require 'single conversion' crystals. The two crystal types are not interchangeable.
Different brands of transmitter have different signal formats -- Futaba and Hitec are 'negative shift', while Airtronics and JR are 'positive shift'. Make sure the micro receiver you buy is compatible with your brand of transmitter.
Q: What kind of cheap radio system do you recommend to control two motors and a spinning weapon? A: Check with the event organizer before attempting to use any 'cheap' radio system in a 'bot with a spinning weapon. Many combat rules sets require specific safety measures for weapon safety that are not available in inexpensive radios. For robot combat it isn't smart to try to save money on your radio system.
Copyright 2006, 2007 by Mark Joerger -- all rights reserved. |