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2074 Questions and Answers about Combat Robotics from Team Run Amok Team Run Amok receives a lot of email asking about the design and operation of combat robots. In 2002 my son and team member Aaron Joerger (now 18) requested a question and answer page to document our responses. Aaron answers most of the questions, but I'll step in if it gets very technical.
Recent QuestionsQ: When did you last use 'The Gap'? A: Not much call for heavyweights here in the Pacific Northwest. It last fought at a parking lot match in 2004.
Q: What did you think of 'G.B.H. 2'?
A: Pretty, but couldn't fight. Lost its only match to the weak 'Sir Chromalot' and 'The Alien' in the opening round of The Sixth Wars. Wish I knew what G.B.H. stood for, but it was never disclosed. Q: What did you think of 'Texas Tornado'? What is your opinnion on 'Spiny Norman' and 'Yo Mama'? A: 'G.B.H. 2' was unusual enough to be interesting, but we don't give opinions on every mundane robot. Q: What robots had hair/fur that was set on fire? A: Seriously? Q: Whats the story to 'Test Toaster 1'? ![]() A: 'Test Toaster One' won the lightweight (40 pound) class at the 1995 US Robot Wars and made it to the semi-finals of the 1996 event. It has the distinction of being the first 'thwackbot'. We exchanged emails with TT1's builder Jeff Bowden a few years ago. He tells me he still has TT1 out in his garage. Q: Do you know of any sites where I can search the builders names to get info? Is there a site where I can search any robot and get information on it besides its records?
A: Mark J. here: no such luck. It takes considerable detective work to trace combat robot history. I spent six months running down the information needed to put together the tournament trees and early rule sets for our Who Won web page.
You can start with the Event Reports by Team Nightmare and the Links Page at RobotCombat.com. You'll get very familliar with The Wayback Machine to locate older versions of websites. You may also get some useful information from the Builders Database.
If you're really this interested in stories from early robot combat, drop whatever you're doing and go find a copy of 'Gearheads: the turbulent rise of robotic sports' by Brad Stone. You'll thank me.
As previously mentioned, BotRank has combat records for more than 4000 robots. A great many of these robots simply have no story. They were built, they fought, they won or lost, and their builders moved on. Even if you find the builder, they may have no specific memories of their career in robot combat. Q: Is 'Megabyte's shell really made of Lexan? Don't you want as much weight on the shell for an FBS? I guess the blades must weigh a lot then... A: No -- some versions of 'Megabyte' had a protective Lexan cover on the robot body under the shell, but the shell itself is titanium. From its size and weight (100+ pounds) I'm estimating the shell material is at least 1/2" thick. Q: would 1/8" titanium work well for a heavyweight FBS?
A: It depends entirely on your design. See the Q: Our Robocup robot can see in all directions and it is attracted to a red ball i.e. it drives to it. At the same time it is repelled from blue walls, i.e. when it comes too close to it, it moves backwards. Now assume the red ball lies in front of the blue wall. Describe the resulting behavior! Can you enhance on it? How? b) Would you say it is related to question 14 (in what way resp. why not)? c) What is local minima? What can you do to avoid local minima? Explain. We are building a new mobile service robot system using as a main control unit an embedded industrial PC. We have to interface to a motion controller board using either serial link RS232 or USB or CAN bus. Argue for one of the solutions by taking into account speed, price, reliability and sustainability.
A: Mark J. here: we get the same set of questions from the same engineering class every few months -- word-for-word. This proves that engineers can be taught how to cut-and-paste. Seriously, has it occurred to none of you that we don't know what question 14 is?
We won't answer your homework questions, slackers. If you'd bothered to read question #32 in the Q: What is the meaning of 'An Nasr'? A: Mark J. here: I believe that means 'some dolt who read nothing on this website and thinks we answer linguistic questions'. You can find your answer at Wikipedia. Q: [Chinese Forum] Was 'La Machine' designed by Gage Cauchois? Why didn't he compete with it and let Greg Munson build it? A: 'La Machine' was a team effort from Gage Caushois, Greg Munson, and Trey Roski. Caushois was the 'gearhead' and proposed the design, Munson organized the team and arranged funding, and helicoper pilot Roski did the driving. You can read the whole story in 'Gearheads: the turbulent rise of robotic sports' by Brad Stone. Q: Do you know when we can see the Battlebots 6.0? A: The most recent BattleBots tweet claims that something will be aired December 10th, 2009 on the difficult to find 'CBS College Sports Network'. Information from BattleBots has proven to be incredibly unreliable, so don't bet on it. Q: Why aren't there more designs like 'T-Wrex'? Its thwackbot design seemed to work well. A: We have discussed the problem with thwackbots many times previously. Current combat robot judging criteria score on only two factors: damage and aggression. A thwackbot design cannot effectively show aggression as it must spin in place. From the guidelines: count for aggression points, even if it is an amazingly destructive weapon." This is too big a scoring deficit to overcome. Thwackbots are 'dead'.
Q: Ok, one more quick thing. What happened to nemisis from the 1996 robot wars? I recognize his builders name from battlebots, but anytime I try to find stuff out about him the robot wars competitor shows up.
A: Chris Harriman went on to build many, many robots and to compete pretty much everywhere -- including Robot Wars, but not with the old 'Nemesis'. The 1996 'Nemesis' was never heard from again. The middleweight 'Nemesis' that competed at BattleBots was not related. It's standard practice to scavenge retired robots for parts that live on in new robots. BotRank has tracked the competition records for more than 4000 combat robots, almost all of them now retired. If you really want to find out precisely what happened to any specific one of them you're going to have to track down the builder and ask. Q: Ok, thanks. What robots did he build? A: Following the US Robot Wars, Chris Harriman became associated with Team Raptor. He built and fought the thwackbot 'Carnage' at Botbash and BattleBots, and the fierce vertical spinner 'Cyclone' at Robot Wars Extreme Warriors. He also contributed to the construction of the 'Raptor' line of robots: 'Alpha Raptor', 'Beta Raptor', 'Tripulta Raptor', 'Gamma Raptor', 'Rippa Raptor' and 'Pack Raptors'. Q: HE DID!!! NO WAY!! ok, one more bot, did the builder(s) of pokey from the 1996 robot wars build anything else? what happened to pokey? A: That would be Curt Meyers from Team Boilerbots - builder of 'Pokey', 'Kill-O-Amp', and 'Jaws of Death'. As mentioned previously, if you want to know what happened to a specific robot - ASK THE BUILDER. Q: sorry, I just can not find any of the builders for some reason. Also, one more bot then I promise I'm done, what happened to los gringos locos from 1995 and did the team build anything else? I'm done now :)
The robot lost its first and only fight, to 'Kitty Puff Puff'. Depressed, 'Pain Mower' made its way to the center of the Golden Gate Bridge and leapt off - only to land on the deck of a freighter bound for the Philippines. After hitching a ride into Manila, 'Pain Mower' worked in a laundry for several years and saved every penny until it had enough money to open a small auto parts store. It married a lovely girl named Maria and had four children: two boys, a girl, and a toaster. The family is doing well. Tommy Van Gelder and the rest of Los Gringos Locos never, to the best of my knowledge, built another robot. Q: hello, I just got a pair of small johnson motors and their stall is around 90 amps and I am wondering if I could use them with my scorpion XXL?, because it says it has thermal protection... YES/NO or should I just get another pair of motors?
A: Mark J. here: stall current is only a factor if you're going to stall the motors. Run your drivetrain design thru the Team Tentacle Torque Calculator and see how many amps the motors will pull to spin the wheels.
An example 2-wheel drive hobbyweight running two Johnsons ('small') with 4" wheels and a 12:1 gear reduction at 12 volts will pull less than 17 amps per side pushing at full throttle against an immoveable object. That would be well within the 20 amp continuous rating of the Scorpion XXL.
'Thermal Protection' is a good feature to have as a back-up, but you don't want to rely on it on a regular basis. If you overload the ESC badly it may 'smoke' before the thermal protection even notices that something is wrong. Q: Thanks for the help! I am using the motors with the team whyachi t-boxes and on the team whyachi page it says the ratio for the t-boxes is: 11.52:1 what exactly does that mean? can I round it to 12:1 on the team tentacle calculator? Thanks
A: An 11.52:1 gear ratio means that the motor must rotate 11.52 times to get the output shaft to rotate once. The output shaft will have 11.52 times the torque of the motor and the output shaft will spin 11.52 times slower than the motor.
The Team Tentacle Torque Calculator will accept decimal gear ratios, so go ahead and enter 11.52. If you did need to round, I'd suggest rounding downward for a more conservative estimate of amperage use. Q: How many heavyweight bots still compete in the US? A: The BotRank.com 'current rankings' keep a running list of robots by weight class that have fought in the last 18 months. That list (as of November, 2009) shows 16 heavyweight robots -- but that does not include the 25 robots that registered to fight in the heavyweight division at the 2009 BattleBots competition because results from that tournament are still 'secret'. Q: Hmmm,well i do like to know which bot has the most wins that is a heavyweight. A: Go browse the heavyweight 'History Score' section at BotRank.com. They have win/loss records for all robots from traditional one-on-one combat tournaments. Click on the green 'Score' for a complete fight-by-fight combat record for any specific robot. Hours of fun! Q: Where did megabyte find his battery for the ETEK motor?
A: Pit photos show 'Megabyte' running four BattlePacks from
A: Willis Wong's 'The Landshark' fought a single fight at the 1997 US Robot Wars. It lost to 'Z'. Willis had previously entered heavyweight 'Marvin' in the 1996 Robot Wars. It lost its first and only fight to 'The Merrimac'. My files have no other information on Willis or his robots.
You might be interested in Team Run Amok's Who Won page. It has complete tournament trees for the major robot combat tournaments.
A: Mark J. here: think about that question for a minute and you can probably answer it yourself.
The robot would have had to win the first tournament it ever entered and then win every subsequent tournament. Assuming that you're talking about the main Robot Wars tournament, only one robot has done that. Not difficult to figure out.
A: According to Jim Smentowski the five robots that competed in all seven BattleBots tournaments from Long Beach '99 thru Comedy Central Season 5.0 were:
A: There have been multiple unrelated robots named 'Mad Cow'. There was a lightweight spinner from Team Mad Cow (archived) that fought at BattleBots, a middleweight from Team Rabid Robotics that fought in the MechWars series, and a heavyweight from Team Boltz that fought at RWEW1. Team Boltz returned to RWEW2 with 'Mad Cow Bot' and 'Psycho Chicken'.
A: Mark J. here: We aren't an engineering service and we don't give out specific recommendations on 'how thick' beyond the comments in our armor guide. Medium alloy steel and grade 5 titanium are very different materials. Team Plumb Crazy is fond of steel for their wedges, but I don't know the thickness, alloy, or treatment they use. I'd suggest asking Wendy and Matt at Team Plumb Crazy.
A: Mark J. here: no.
'Hercules 2' was built by Jim Smentowski in 1997/1998 and was never put into competition. Jim sold the unused Hercules 2 in February, 2001 to an undisclosed buyer.
'Kill-O-Amp' from Team Boilerbots (Curt Meyers and Amy Sun) first fought at Robot Wars 1997. The name changed to 'Kill-O-Amp 2' for BattleBots Long Beach 1999 and BattleBots Las Vegas 1999, but it was essentially the same robot. The name changed back to 'Kill-O-Amp' for BattleBots 1.0 (June 2000). A pointed front prow was added for BattleBots 2.0 (November 2000) which created a vague resembalance to the pointed front of 'Hercules 2'. 'Kill-O-Amp' fought once more at BattleBots 3.0 (May 2001) but this was the same old robot - no relation to 'Hercules 2'.
I don't know who bought 'Hercules 2' from Jim, but it wasn't Team Boilerbots.
A: The photo you found is a Team-X-Bots shot of 'Medusa Oblongata' from Robot Wars Extreme Warriors 2 before it got its war paint and decorations added. I found a photo [right] on the Team Truly Unruly site of their robot after it got decorated. 'Ninjitsu' did have a similar square rotary blade, but it was mounted horizontally. 'Medusa Oblongata' from RWEW1 looked completely different.
Q: Is there a picture of Ninjitsu anywhere?
A: I don't have one.
A: Mike Regan showed up at Robot Wars Extreme Warriors 1 with his first heavyweight robot -- 'The Brute'. For RWEW2 'The Brute returned with a spinning drum weapon.
Mike also drove one of the Robot Wars 'loanerbots' at RWEW1. The 'bot was called 'Silver Box' and it competed in the Robot Rebellion.
A: Many teams did compete at Techno Games with renamed and thinly disguised Robot Wars entries, but I didn't keep track of who renamed what.
A: I'm not sure how you figure 'Monster' did well at the 1997 U.S. Robot Wars. He had two fights and lost them both. Overall record: 2 wins, 5 losses.
I'm not going to take more 'what happened to' questions because the answer is almost always the same: they built, they fought, they got tired of it, and they quit.
A: Robotic Death Company reports that 'Megabyte' used the Briggs & Stratton Etek Motor at 60 volts (maybe 48 volts?) for the weapon and four 24-volt DeWalt motors for the drive train. There is reference to a 'souped up' Etec being used in 'Rambyte', but no details are given.
A: A small drum on one end, a weak flipper on the other. A fine example of two poor weapons not equaling one good one. Record: zero wins, two losses.
A: Lots of robots disappeared following the end of Robot Wars. 'Panic Attack' had been on a long downhill slide:
A: I don't think I understand the question. All three of the robots you mention are full-body spinners: 'Ziggo' was a dome, 'Typhoon 2' was a cone, and 'Moebius' was a squat cylinder. They all sprouted assorted impact blades. 'Ziggo' also had the exposed ends of a square-tube beam sticking out thru the dome. I believe this is a structural issue rather than an attempt to improve on energy conversion -- I don't see any particular advantage.
Q: Sorry for not explaining my question well. What I ment was, do you think Ziggo's way of mounting his impact blade so the sharp side stands up instead of it sticking out horizontaly causes more damage?
A: I don't think it makes much difference. I suspect that it was just more convenient for the shell design to mount the impact blade as an end-cap on the structural tube. Note that spinner impact blades are generally not 'sharp' -- a sharp blade tends to cut into armor and wedge itself stuck. A blunt blade will rip without as much risk of sticking.
A: We've discussed that photo before. Search the
A: I have very little information on the Robot Wars featherweight competitors. Nothing related to 'Bernard' pops up in my files.
A: Mark J. here: I'm not comfortable giving out that information. If you knew enough to safely build such a potentially dangerous system, you'd already know where to get the pieces. It's the same reason I don't give info on how to build flame weapons.
P.S. - I'd feel a little better if you knew how to turn off your Caps Lock key.
A: As previously mentioned, the 'loanerbots' were loaned to teams at Robot Wars Extreme Warriors who's own robots were lost in transit, damaged beyond repair in the main tournament, or failed to pass technical inspection. Why specific teams were selected over others to receive a loanerbot I can't say.
Tracking the loanerbots isn't easy. Some of the names changed between seasons ('Joker' became 'Humdrum', 'Green House' became 'Vert-i-go', 'Green Mouse' became 'Squirmin Vermin'), some disappeared, and some new ones (like 'Zanzara') appeared for the second season. I don't have a full list of teams who used the loaners, and it will take more time to sort out than I have right now.
Q: Were there any walkers in Robot Wars Extreme Warriors?
A: You have to be either a masochist or an evil genius to build a walker. No walkers at RWEW 1 or 2.
A: If there is a relationship, I can't find it.
A: 'Ellie's Litle Pink Bot' was one of many dozen robots that fought a single battle at Robot Wars, lost, and were never seen again. In this particular case E.L.P.B. was attacked by Growler, burned, crushed, dismembered, and thrown into The Pit. It probably went out with that night's trash.
A: There's another post about 'Dead Metal's weapon down near the bottom of this page. The weapon was designed for cutting rather than blunt impact, and was used only after a competitor was already weakened and 'docile'. I don't believe that a similar weapon would be useable in open combat.
A: Sorry, no. I also don't know Philippa Forrester's phone number, Craig Charles' shoe size, or how many bolts held the Robot Wars arena together.
A: I make them better than graham crackers but not as good as a soup can. ABS plastic: far too thin, way too flexible.
A: There is plenty of information on both 'Ziggy' and 'Toro' in the
Q: Do you know of a picture of British featherweight 'Eddie Evolution'?
A: 'Eddie Evolution' fought only once, in Robot Wars Extreme Series 2: Robot Rampage. It drove into The Pit and was never seen again. No photo available.
Q: Was 'Eddie Evolution' related to 'A-Kill'/'Saw Point 2'?
A: They looked a bit alike, but I don't know of any relation.
A: I guess somebody fixed the computer in my pants - I'm getting email from an ***hole again.
A: Probophobia was a wheeled robot, but it did have a pair of very long lifting arms sprouting from the sides of the machine that could rotate continuously in either direction. They could be used to drag/crawl forward in an emergency. These long lifting arms were able to get a grip on the edge of The Pit and lever Probophobia back onto the main arena surface during the Nickelodeon Robot Wars - the first and only time that a competitor escaped. Unfortunately, the rules say that once you're in The Pit you're out of the match - no reprieve possible.
A: I believe it was 'Hyperactive' in the second round of the Annihilator, but I'll have to check the tape to be sure. 'Cyclone' was the first spinner to throw an opponent out of the Robot Wars arena.
Q: I previously asked about Probophobia, thanks for the answers. Do you know which battle in Nickelodeon that it got out of the Pit?
A: I recall that it was in the 'Challenge Belt' competition against eventual champion 'TutTut'.
A: It's difficult to comment on a robot that only fought two matches and lost them both. Both 'Original Sin' and 'Original Sin 2' fought at RoboGames '07 - perhaps the team resources were stretched too thin to properly support both robots?
A: 'Panzer Mk 2' had a pneumatically adjustable front plow. It could raise or lower over about an 8" range. Although it could be used to provide a little 'boost' to an opponent, it was never intended to be an effective flipper.
A: Not sure what you mean by "same parts like the UK competitors." The loanerbots had square-tube steel chassis' and were powered by Bosch GPA 750 motors. These were common components used by the Robot Wars tech crew on the House Robots.
A: That either makes for a very tall 'bot or a very small blade, and I don't see what advantage you get by raising and lowering that blade. You could miss your opponent completely as they drive over. Better to put the blade somewhere where you can show aggression by pointing it at somebody and driving into them.
A: I'll assume the gearbox spins freely when the motor is removed? Possible problems:
A: Ask them.
A: No, not true. Featherweight 'Pain in the Asp' is the product of Team Torque in the UK. I'm assuming that they are admirers of Team Plumb Crazy and 'Sewer Snake', so they built a featherweight version. Details of the 'bot are at the Team Torque website.
A: Mark J. here: the 'CKRC WIGGLE' is a re-branded Cirrus CS704MG Servo. I've used other Cirrus servos and found them to be reliable. I have not had 'hands on' this servo, so cannot compare it directly to the Hitec 645MG. The specifications look very good and the chatter on the web about them is good -- but I don't know any robot builders using them. YPYMYTYC.
You don't neen anything fancy to mount your lifter servo - a couple of blocks of UHMW polyethylene, polycarbonate, even wood will do nicely depending on your design. Spend that money on something more critical.
A: Traction in an antweight arena is an elusive goal. Dust, oil spray, and other contaminants on the arena floor will spoil traction for any set-up, so don't expect miracles. That said, a thin layer of RTV silicone rubber applied to the tread surface can give a significant traction boost under some circumstances.
Silicone is gooey stuff to work with, and you have to work quickly and with a steady hand to get a satifactory job. If you've never worked with silicone before, practice applying a thin layer to some scrap objects before setting to work on your tires. Silicone bonds better to some materials than others, and you may get some peeling in even the best cases.
Clean the tire surfaces very well with alcohol and let dry. Apply a very thin, even layer to the tread of each tire and set aside to cure for at least 24 hours before use.
A: Carefree Tires are made of centrifugally molded polyurethane foam which produces a lightweight, flatproof tire with a firm tread and flexible sidewalls. They take a great deal of abuse. We used them for front tires on heavyweight 'Run Away' in the second Robot Wars Extreme Warriors. Their downside is relatively poor traction compared to a conventional rubber tire of the same size. Some teams buff down the outer tread to get to a spongy layer with greater traction. I wouldn't call them 'perfect', but they do have their uses.
A: There are many questions and answers about spring powered weapons in the
Q: [Chinese Forum] Aaron, in your last question you said that there was only one bot using spring loaded system really succeeded - which is that one? I guess Derek Young's 'Son Of Smashy', wasn't that? Could you analyze why had SOS been that successful?
A: Yes, but no points for correct answers to your own questions ; ^ ) Derek's success with 'Son of Smashy' had less to do with the spring power than it did with being the first powerful overhead axe middleweight to turn up at BattleBots (Long Beach, 1999). The judges were impressed by Derek's aggression and ability to do some damage. When overhead axes became less of a novelty you needed more than spring power to impress the judges and pneumatic power took over.
A: 'Gilbert' is very quick, but I'm not sure how fast. MH Robotics does not share much info on their robots - I don't know what motors 'Gilbert' currently uses.
A: Mark J. here: neither Mechanum wheels nor omniwheels are known for a lot of traction, and neither design has an apparent theoretical advantage. The Fingertech Mechanum wheels have actual rubber rollers instead of the hard urethane rollers commonly found in omniwheels, so I'd give them a potential traction advantage. Clean the rollers before every match!
A: Mark J. here: 'Maximus'? Good heavens, no! I have photos of robots with hinged wedges dating back at least as far as the 1996 Robot Wars event. That's five years before 'Maximus' fought.
Q: Did Kevin Barker's 'Death By Translation' used Melty Brain system? And how could DBT spins at 1000rpm by only using one wheel?
A: Yes. 'Melty Brain' refers to any system that controls directional motion (translation) on a thwackbot by rapidly changing motor power as the robot spins. 'Death by Translation' uses Rich Olson's custom electronics to measure rotational speed with an accelerometer and pass that information on to a micro controller to do the power changes.
The physics of spinning with a single tangential wheel are difficult to describe. It's a bit like a spinning cowboy lariat - it's only supported on one side, but spinning forces keep it relatively stable. The single-wheel configuration does cause some problems; directional control is not good at higher speeds. It's an interesting experiment, but it has achieved no combat success to date.
A: Mark J. here: you've been thinking pretty hard about this. The short answer is 'yes', but there are problems in implementing such a design.
A: I don't think you actually need an email at your school to download. Very few sub-college students will have one. Go to the Autodesk Education Community website, register with your regular email address, and see what happens.
A: Bill Nye is great at what he does. I didn't think he was a good match for BattleBots.
A: I get it -- if you have a dustpan under your opponent you can strike downward without flipping your own robot upward. Not bad, but a downward striking rotary blade will also strike 'inward', jamming the blade and your opponent into the dustpan and against your own 'bot. You are correct that there would be large forces applied to your own robot structure as well.
Q: how about a four sided wedge with a blade in the center? so if you go up any side, you get shreded. Kind of like an arena hazard on wheels.
A: Relying on an opponent's actions to cause their own damage is not a winning strategy. You're also in real trouble if your opponent can get under your wedge - how do you apply your weapon then? Better to put your weapon in a position where you have direct control of its application.
I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas, but a good number of very creative builders have been thinking and experimenting with combat robot design for 15 years now. I'm convinced that every design that you or I can come up with has already been considered and possibly built by some competitor by now. The time for big new designs in combat robots is long past. Successful combat robots are based on quality design and construction.
Q: Also, (sorry if I'm bugging you) was the lightweight bot "crusher" from the same team that built bad Attitude?
Q: And since Bad Attitude is now "Nasty Attitude" would that raise the value of a "Bad Attitude" toy?
A: No.
Q: And, whats your opinion on bad attidude? I thought that he was pretty cool.
A: Nice robot. Well designed, well built, and well driven.
A: Two problems:
A: No, but I know how this rumor started. Run Amok used the main chassis elements from an old riding lawnmower that we salvaged from a junkyard. Some photos on the Run Amok Origins web page show the lawn mower with the original mowing blade still in place. The blade assembly was removed in stripping down the chassis, but the photo seems to have caused some confusion. |